Did we blame Churchill for defending his country?
Reasonable people can disagree about America’s role in Ukraine — if you can hear them above the shrieking from the True Patriot psych ward.
After Friday’s smackdown in the Oval Office, Volodymyr Zelensky is getting the same treatment that John McCain (“the traitor!”) got when the late senator disagreed with the Re-Maker of American Greatness. Did you know? The president of Ukraine was a porn star! A coke addict! That’s the chatter on MAGA social media. You’ve jumped an entire school of sharks when you’re quoting Putin sycophant Tucker Carlson, who was too much for even Fox News.
Tucker Carlson contends Zelensky “sold huge quantities of American weapons in the international black market at 20 cents on the dollar.” No Links, Tuck? Ukrainians “murdered people in various countries in political assassinations.” Sure you don’t mean Vladimir Putin?
God only knows what the Ukrainians have done with the pathogens in American bio-labs in their country. Even U.S. intelligence agencies aren’t sure. — Tucker Carlson
Start blaming Zelensky
Tucker suggests that Zelensky is engaging in chemical warfare, then admits that no one can confirm it, maybe God. But “it’s going to come out.” When? “At some point!” Don’t wait for confirmation! Blame it on Zelensky. NOW! Back to reasonable people: NY Times‘ token conservative Ross Douthat questions, like Trump and growing numbers of reasonable Republicans, whether the U.S. …
… is capable of playing the hegemonic role it played 20 years ago, fully supporting democratic allies in every region, standing ready to fight wars across multiple theaters, refusing any compromise with authoritarianism. The reality: America is over-stretched, a more multipolar world requires making deals with unpleasant regimes, and we need to recalibrate and retrench in ways that will require much more of our allies. … The war is stalemated, there is no path to Ukrainian victory short of a direct American intervention, some kind of negotiated settlement is inevitable, and NATO membership was never realistically in the cards. — Ross Douthat, NY Times
Maybe it is Europe’s problem, as we said in the last thrilling episode. We think they will rise to the challenge. Does that make Zelensky the bad guy for being invaded? We quote an armchair hero, who does not have one-tenth the brass Zelensky has in his ball sack:
GTFO Zel[ensky]. I would’ve luved it if someone kicked his azz into the limo.
Tucker and sycophants like our armchair hero are welcome to believe that Putin will be satisfied with one-fifth of Ukraine; that he won’t return to finish off the carcass before moving on to other prey — say, the Baltics. But how is Zelensky the bad guy?
He didn’t want ‘peace’
FDR’s advisers (like old Joe Kennedy) said Winston Churchill was a dilettante and a drunkard. Britain could not win. Notables like Charles Lindbergh admired the strong men of Europe. Winston Churchill, supplicating America, spoke courage, principle, and defiance to the British Commons 18 long months before the U.S. entered the war:
We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God’s good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old.
Blaska’s Bottom Line: Again, it may be more Europe’s problem than ours. But let’s not pretend Zelensky and the Ukrainians are the bad guys. It may be just that America is tired.
24 responses to “We shall flag and fail”
I’m really disappointed in someone I’ve held my nose for each time but when push came to shove have now voted for three times for President. The fear of Democratic Party policies were the deciding factor each time and made the vote easier.
This is not how you treat an ally, and my disgust for his cozying up to a despot like Putin couldn’t be greater. Still, do I think things would be better under Kacklin’ Kamala or Sleepy Joe? Not a chance! There is no Churchill in this country, and thank God the Brits and Macron are standing up for our weakness on the Ukraine mess that Sleepy Joe left for the world to solve.
Thanks Dave, that was well said. Now maybe we can get back to smashing local politics. Slava Ukraini.
good comment Squire….
Well said, Squire. I beg your leave for a brief historical note: Isolationists who opposed U.S. entry into the European war against Nazi Germany organized the now infamous America First Committee. This slogan has been recently resurrected to make common cause with a new European strongman by undermining long-standing alliances and support for Ukraine. The America First Committee, organized in 1940 by leading industrialists with aviator Charles Lindbergh as it most prominent spokesperson, reached a membership of more than 800,000 by the close of 1941 (Cole, Wayne S. (1953) America First: The Battle against Intervention, 1940-41, p. 30). The Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor pretty much exposed the folly of isolationism, but traces of it helped delay D-Day until June 1944. The same “me first” attitude effectively foreclosed humanitarian asylum in America for Jews who were officially abandoned to the Nazis.
After the Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2002, the U.S. and European democracies were initially slow to come to Ukraine’s aid. (So slow that I sent $100 per week to the bank account of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until substantial aid belatedly began to arrive in May.) Like most of the world, I didn’t expect that a politically wobbly Ukraine could hold out against a powerful Russia. But I don’t like bullies, so I chipped in for boots and bullets as a matter of principle. To everyone’s surprise, ordinary Ukrainians rose up to fight back, inspired by a leader who risked his life (and those of his wife and kids) to help give voice to the resistance. Unlike WWII America, Ukraine’s neighbors throughout Europe generously sheltered vast numbers of Ukrainian children and their mothers. And for 3 years, Ukraine has fought Russia to a draw.
War is inherently error-prone, as is the diplomacy required to resolve a military stalemate. I will be the last to criticize Ukraine as it makes these difficult decisions. This weekend, I was appalled by the cowardly bullies in the White House who turned their backs on history to strut their power and augment their wealth. And shame on the impotent keyboard bullies who infest the comment section of this blog (although I better understand what makes a Trump voter tick).
“Impotent keyboard bullies”
Not you though huh? You must be on the frontline in Ukraine. How’s it going?
And turned their backs on history? You may want to look up “Vietnam”. The only thing that is certain is that none of us know the complete facts about Ukraine. How could we?
Also look up our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Answering both One Eye and Expat: See if you can spot the difference between Iraq & Afghanistan and Vietnam. It involves whose boots were on the ground. Now, it’s fair to ask, do either of you think Putin stops at Ukraine? Raise hand if do.
Oh hell see if you can spot the difference between Afghanistan and Afghanistan. When Russia invaded the “freedom fighters” resisted. When the US invaded they suddenly became plain old terrorists.
And of course no one knows if Putin will stop. Except maybe the Cheneys and NIKKI (=CORRUPT).
Raise your hand if you think another forever war will work because this time it’s different.
BZZZZ! Time’s up, One Eye! The difference b/w Afghanistan/Vietnam and Ukraine? No American boots on the ground! Thanks for playing.
Ah yes only dead Russians, Ukrainians and a spattering of North Koreans! It’s all good then.
One more thing though… we’ve sent billions of dollars and for what? Is the goal to bankrupt America in the service of an unwinnable cause?
37 trillion incoming…
The similarity between Viet Nam, Iraq and Aghanistan is that we lost all of them.
Let that sink in.
And yes I think Putin will stop agressing. He’s pretty played out. All the more likely if the EU gets energy sufficient and can stand up militarily. Will they? I doubt it.
There is a rot in their globalist soul like France in 1940.
I knew Blaska before he was a RINO wrote, “And for 3 years, Ukraine has fought Russia to a draw.”
When fighting continues after a perceived draw has been reached, the fight becomes nothing but a war of attrition and Ukraine has ZERO chance to win that kind of war with Russia. If Ukraine want’s to survive as a nation, they need peace and Russia knows this. Trump was correct when he stated that Ukraine doesn’t currently have the cards.
People can demonize Trump all they want for what took place in the Oval Office, but personally I think President Volodymyr Zelenskyy really screwed the pooch for negotiating an effective peace. I wonder if Zelenskyy knows what crow tastes like.
The mistake is in thinking that Ukraine holds no cards and Russia holds all the cards. No to both. Why is Russia importing soldiers from North Korea? NORTH KOREA! to fight for them in Ukraine! Because Russia is near bled out. The Ukrainians are defending their homeland. Russian conscripts see a Vietnam.
Europe will give Zelensky a better deal than Trump. I said in the previous blogge that American shovels in the ground was a form of security. My point in this blog is to point out that Zelensky is not the aggressor and that the U.S. interceded in Europe’s problems in 1941 even though (it could be argued) our real fight was in the Pacific (then as now). In any event, the U.S. and other signatories promised Ukraine protection if it gave up its nukes in 1994.
TGFTO! (Thank God for the Oscars)
The Hollywood elites solved Ukraine and the Middle East last night.
As Jed Bartlett used to say “What’s next?”.
Regarding the White House’s transparent “messy sausage making” episode, the following is well worth the time for everyone to read in its entirety. As usual at Ethics Alarms, there are some thoughtful comments from the regular EA commentary, but pay close attention to Michael West’s epic comment.
Ethics Dunce: Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy (and Further Observations on the Oval Office Fiasco)
In my opinion; negotiating between opposing sides of an actual war where people are being killed on a daily basis can be really, really messy. There is no expected Kumbaya at the negotiating table, it’s where grievances must be openly and honestly stated so effective negotiations can begin. The wartime negotiating table is where the real life or death sausage is being made; where they’ve come from, where they currently are, and where they are heading must all be effectively addressed.
I’ve heard it said over and over again about campaigns and politics in general that, “it’s never too soon to go negative”; my question regarding that blanket political statement is, does that apply to all politicians equally or only those that we fully support.
No american boots, not yet anyway. Unfortunately this has been turned into a technocratic war of alliances and rules of engagement for better or worse. Putin and his true warmongers does not care our men are not being lost. But he does care that u.s.a. designed, built and deployed weapons are being used on him. He sees it for what it is a usa led defensive war against him. Everyone is boxed in right now, who will escalate this further. In wwii, there was only one real acceptable outcome, the complete surrender of italy, germany and japan we would not stop until that goal was reached but that was without a real threat of nuclear annihalation. This is a complete mess, a stalemate, there will be no guarantees putin or the next megalomaniac decides to invade ukraine or elsewhere. Peace is needed and it is needed now. Argue all you want but continuation is a losing battle all around.
Remember when everthing in W’s war on terror was labelled a quagmire and the echo chambers repeated ad nauseum. This is truly a quagmire, a quagmire of doom and destruction.
I’m sure the armies of Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg will make Putin quake in his boots.
There’s a video floating around of Bill Clinton where he says Putin is reasonable in private.
https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/putin-clinton-trump-piers-morgan-34785127
Putin wants a buffer between NATO lands and his land – not sure why he would have designs on Europe as it has been becoming a caricature of its former self.
Russia has never played nice with Ukraine, going back to its forced famine during the 1932-33 Holodomor in which millions — yes, millions — of Ukrainians starved to death. Stalin wanted “protection” too and rollled up all of central Europe in addition to Ukraine, Georgia, and Byelorussia. But go ahead and blame Ukraine for wanting out of the gulag.
While I wish the spectacle in the Oval Office hadn’t happened, if the outcome was Europe finally growing a pair and taking charge of this mess, so much the better. Yes, America is tired and so am I. I am tired of conflicts breaking out oceans away and the rest of the world looking at us and expecting our blood and treasure to fix it.
Then again, Europe has been remarkably poor at defending themselves from invasion, so not sure they can do any better for Ukraine.
Good post, Mordecai. Since the twentieth century, Europe has become dependent on American leadership. There is no doubt that America played a grand role in reconstruction and peace-keeping post WW2 on the European continent.
In our time, I too hate bloody American involvement in overseas conflicts. We have now to deal with nuclear proliferation, while the rest of the world has doubts about the new U.S. President.
Yes. It’s time for a stronger Europe to emerge. But historically, isolationism has never worked for America.
All agreed. I am no advocate for isolationism either, but if Europe is so afraid of Putin, then they should lead the charge in dealing with him. Zelenskyy’s meeting with Starmer gives me a bit of hope.
As for proliferation, I firmly believe that Iran cannot be allowed to get nukes, at least not while the ayatollahs are in charge. Israel seems to understand this better than we do.
As I have been saying: it’s mostly Europe’s problem. After 80 years, Europe had plenty of time to recover from WW2. And American shovels in the ground and investment in the country is the surest safeguard against a Russian takeover. My hunch (for it is only that) is that Z did nto want to give up even more of his country than Russia currently occupies in exchange for peace. That, and we did guarantee Ukraine in that 1994 deal where they gave up their nukes. (Lesson to us all, next time some progressive offers a gun buy back. When Kalvin Barrett did his two years ago, I got cash for rusty barrels.)
This particular post was to rebut the Tucker Carlson craziness that Zelensky is a drug dealing porn star.
Walter Kirn on X, apropos:
“Going from opposing a war in which our own troops were dying to celebrating one in which only foreigners are dying is the Long Strange Trip of the Boomer Hip”