Chicago police chief says of I.C.E.
In a recent thrilling episode, The Werkes neither condemned Mizz Renee Good for being shot to death during an illegal immigrant roundup in “mostly peaceful” Minneapolis nor did we exonerate the federal immigration agent who dispatched her. But we did suggest the poor woman was fatally foolish for putting herself in harm’s way.
→ “Renee Good fought the law and the law won”
Which didn’t register with Woke-indoctrinated public high school students here in Madison WI who cut class and made noise yesterday in the state capitol. As required study (had Blaska’s election to the school board not been stolen), The Werkes wheels into their classrooms our Bell & Howell film projector to screen a remedial ed video. It features Chicago Police Superintendent Larry Snelling delivering a civics lesson to student and unionized teacher, alike:
“Federal agents, I.C.E. and H.S.I. [Homeland Security Investigations] are officers, they are agents of law enforcement. If you box them in with vehicles it is reasonable to believe they are being ambushed and it is reasonable for them to use force.”
“Do not box in any law enforcement officer! You are breaking the law when you do that and you are putting yourself in danger. Following law enforcement agents around … what do you plan on doing? It is reasonable for them to believe that you are going to do harm to them. If you ram any vehicle — especially one that contains law enforcement … this is considered deadly force. … And they can use deadly force in response to stop you. We need to be clear about these laws. … You may not like what they are doing … but that does not mean you get to commit a crime, especially one that could lead to deadly force. … We do not interfere with the duties and responsibilities of federal agents.” — Chicago Police Superintendent Larry Snelling
Around & about
• Seeing a letter to Mr. Ed in this morning’s daily (except Mondays) fish wrap calling for the return of the Upper Peninsula to Wisconsin. The timing is right, given Trump’s preoccupation with Greenland. The Werkes were there first: “Let’s invade Michigan’s Upper Peninsula! Now, while we’ve got the muscle!”
• That Ford factory worker who taunted Trump has NO right of free speech — not on company time on the company floor.
• Now that the President has signed the “Whole Milk for Healthy Children Act,” we anticipate the “Chocolate Cake with Gooey Frosting for Happy Adults Act.” Seriously, remember when we weren’t supposed to eat eggs? The science (contrary to progressives) is never settled.
• The Werkes mourns the passing of John Kavanaugh. His Esquire Club on Madison’s NE side was/is a welcoming home for advocates of all political philosophies. A rarity in this town. Mighty good fish fry and Manhattan, too!
Blaska’s Bottom Line: Chicago’s chief of police will save more lives than Madison’s truant high school virtue signalers. But don’t blame the kids; they’re victims of Paul Fanlund’s UniParty.
41 responses to “‘It is reasonable for them to use force’”
“The science is never settled”?? Well, when was the last time you saw apples falling up? The sun standing still? Anything exceeding the speed of light? The earth going in reverse? An animal surviving forever? Or Blaska being elected?
Careful, Steve. Let’s look at your first example of “settled science”. Put a bushel of apples into orbit and measure its change in height between perigee and apogee (spoiler: It falls up!) Look at your last example. The Squire has been elected Head Greenskeeper every spring for decades (my understanding is that he demands a recount after every election.) Science may be ugly, elegant, or contested, but it should never be dogmatic* lest it become religion faster than you can say,”cherenkov radiation**”.
* Except for branches of mathematics where axioms are the only way forward.
** See your third example
John Kavanaugh was a great human being, I hope his legacy continues through his family. It is truly an oasis in a city of culinary chaos. May God bless his gentle soul.
I watched channel 15’s coverage of the student walkout and of course they interviewed the idiot girl doing her best impression of a beauty pageant contestant explaining how she’d create world peace.
Just once I wish they’d interview one of the kids who chose to stay in class and continue to learn.
Check out an article in this week’s Cap Times purporting to explain the exodus from Madison’s public schools, most of which is devoted to hand-wringing over why most of the rats deserting this sinking ship are white. Not once did the finger of blame point to teachers of the sort who undoubtedly aided and abetted the walkout and probably gave extra credit to anyone participating. When you have a school system that values “social justice” (i.e., progressive shibboleths) over subjects with actual content, it should come as no surprise that parents who know the difference between education and indoctrination opt to pull their kids out of MMSD.
Ah yes, the old ‘teachers are indoctrinators’ chestnut. MMSD has plenty of problems—administrative bloat, achievement gaps, facility costs—but blaming the walkout on extra credit is the kind of thinking that makes serious school reform harder, not easier.
To clarify, all your criticisms of MMSD are valid and well documented–as are criticisms of its teachers and teachers union. Reform can have more than one target. Is it really that difficult to imagine Madison teachers cheering the walkout? After all, that means they get a day off, too. And if there’s one thing teachers need, it’s another day off.
Not only that but what was the DISCREPANCY between white and black kids being pulled out of Madison schools? All of 8 percentage points! Hardly a two for one! The study was done under the aegis of a UW-Madison sociology prof, so (of course) it proved Racism Most Foul!
Not difficult to imagine; just not true. How about facts instead of fantasy Gary.
I don’t understand how you guys can live in Madison. Murderers, rapists, drugs, guns, filth, corruption. If I were you, I would run. Move somewhere nice. A place where all they do is blow whistles and try to protect their neighbors. Get out now before it’s too late and your home is worthless.
Honestly Richard that’s a great point and applies to you too. Don’t you live in Redneck, USA? Why aren’t you in Madison with your people?
I think it would be nice for all of us to share ideas about where to move to. My ideal place is somewhere where people don’t feel compelled to have political yard signs of either stripe. Where is that? Might bring it up with Grok.
sucks to be white doesn’t it.
undoubtably ? prove it.
These kids have phones and tv. Maybe they are watching this BS and wondering when their brown skinned friends are going to be dragged away. If you are sitting by your window watching all the folks from Norway moving in I got news for you; THEY AIN”T COMING because Dementia Don has turned this place into a third world sh$%hole. That’s hole with a H not a W just like dopey don explained in his news briefing. Drink more full fat milk.
Dave, fine. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes is usually sound advice. But your analysis skips some inconvenient frames: the ones showing Good’s vehicle virtually stationary when the agent opened fire through her windshield, and the shooter standing to the side of the car, out of its path, when he fired the first shot.
Chicago Superintendent Snelling is right that boxing in law enforcement is dangerous and illegal. But “reasonable force” has limits. A trained federal agent standing clear of a stopped or barely moving Honda is not facing the same threat as the Waukesha parade crowd did from Darrell Brooks doing 30+ mph through a barricade.
The legal standard isn’t “the officer felt scared.” It’s whether a reasonable officer would believe deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm. If you’re not in the vehicle’s path when you pull the trigger, that’s a hard argument to make. Video evidence matters, and what’s publicly available doesn’t show a vehicle accelerating into anyone — it shows an agent firing into a windshield at near point-blank range from a position of safety.
The feds say the agent was hospitalized for “internal bleeding.” I’d like to see his medical records. Based on the videos, my guess is ulcers.
If Good’s killing was a reasonable use of force, then January 6 should have been a bloodbath. Capitol Police showed far more restraint facing an actual mob than this agent showed facing a cheery middle‑aged woman in a Honda.
You rightly condemn the ghoul who posted the bloody airbag photo. Turn that same lens on whether this shooting was justified under actual use‑of‑force standards — not just “don’t mess with armed feds” common sense.
Good may have been foolish. That doesn’t make her killing lawful.
And yes — let’s raise a glass to John Kavanaugh. He was a good man, and the Esquire Club is a home away from home for all of us.
Not my analysis, Alex. The police chief of Chicago. Mizz Good inserted herself into a live law enforcement operation. Her obvious intention was to impede the police. At this, she succeeded (momentarily). We can second guess the I.C.E. agent as Brandi Grayson and Shadayra Kilfoy-Flores do over the Tony Robinson Jr. killing. It may be that he broke protocol. (The internal bleeding was likely bruising.) Do you really believe the I.C.E. agent shot Mizz Good in cold blood? And yes, the Capitol Police lieutenant who shot Ashli Babbitt was fully justified in doing so.
My two sons and families live right there. I trust their reports to me more than your guesswork and trumpy commentary. Why are these so-called agents knocking in doors asking people where the Asians are? Ice should go back to 34th and Portland then drive 2 miles east. Lake and George Floyd Ave. Those boys will welcome them with open arms. Big, loaded arms. Busting down doors, shooting people, chemicals, is this your so-called “Standard?” Trump said he won the state three times. Do YOU believe that? Even Joe Rogan has had it with Donny’s BS. The real STANDARDS you should be worried about are the ones that let agents who can’t pass a physical test, a written test (open book no less) and have records end up armed and running wild in the streets. I guess that’s the price for being a blue state. Go ahead and send in troops, but on the condition that all ICE leave the state.
I wonder if Minneapolis authorities have put up the “Renee Good Avenue” sign yet. Or are they waiting for the mostly peaceful protestors to burn down a few city blocks first?
So you went from being in a hospital with internal bleeding down to bruising. You’re losing all credibility as a wanna-be right-wing influencer.
I did not go from anything to anything. I said here, for the first time, that the “internal bleeding” reported by others could well have been merely bruising. I do, however, admit when I am wrong — when I am wrong. This was not one of those times. How about you?
Sure thing Gary. Like the over sized scarlet and GOLD sign Florida just put up. PRESIDENT DONALD J TRUMP BOULEVARD. Another tax payer trip to Mar a largo to watch them put it up.
click on the upper left icon.
DIARIO AS.???????? Some you tube nonsense from a unknown source. Why don’t all you stable geniuses get together , translate it all and then post it.
Dave, I didn’t say cold-blooded. I said unjustified. Panicked, poorly trained, or just wrong, take your pick.
Who’s “we”? I’m not second-guessing anything. I’m looking at the video. That’s not second-guessing. That’s called evidence.
Nice deflection bringing up Grayson and Kilfoy-Flores. It doesn’t answer the question: was the shooting justified?
“It may be that he broke protocol.” That’s a polite way of saying she may have been murdered. Now that’s progress.
And you don’t know Good’s motives. You’re assuming she inserted herself to block law enforcement. The video shows ICE vehicles swarming in behind her after she’d been boxed in for several minutes, and waving vehicles to pass her. Maybe she was trying to get out of the way. You’re guessing. I’m watching the tape.
“Internal bleeding was likely bruising.” So the injury claim is bullshit. Apply that same skepticism to the shooting itself. Maybe a few of the thugs he works with beat the shit out of him when they left the scene for his boneheaded move.
Alex! Your reading comprehension needs some work. Where did I say the poor deluded woman’s shooting was justified? Did I not say at the outset:
And no, Renee Good was not murdered any more than the Capitol Police murdered Ashli Babbitt during the Insurrection of J6.
OK, Dave. Your post reads like an argument that justifies her shooting without saying the words. You cited Snelling. You compared her to Brooks, Robinson, Brown, and Babbitt. You blamed “the self-righteous Left” for her death. You called her a “vigilante” who “accelerated into the officer.” That looks like a verdict with plausible deniability. Such sophistry.
You want black & white. Ones and zeroes. This ain’t it.
Ice needs to drink more milk. HOLE or whole, either one.
If there will be an investigation of this murder, I wonder what toxicology reports on Jonathan Ross could reveal.
It’s hilarious to watch the lefty-troll-man-children try to spin this into “unprovoked murder”. Thank God the adults are in charge currently.
Which adults are you referring too? Are you talking about that man baby in the WH who is constantly whining about some shiny object? That woman finally offered it to him just so he would STFU. It’s like putting the babies favorite blankey in the crib so it goes to sleep. Oh wait. Dementia Don doesn’t have a problem falling asleep no matter what’s going on.
My fellow Americans. It’s ME your favorite writer. I’m sitting here in the dark. In my war-room. A dying laptop and working hard. The midterms are coming and I’m in trouble. Please send me a pile of money so I can continue to give tax breaks to zillionaires so they can keep their private jets in the air. Enjoy your piece of chicken, one piece of veg, slice of white bread and that last thing that has no name. Thank you for your attention to this matter. RVTL PS If you have any shiny gold objects laying around, please include them with your donation.
Nobody can find him. In 24 hours, ICE packed up his family and house, Put him in hiding. Enough time to detox and scrub all his electronics. Congress calls for investigations every day. Why not now? The conservative cowards folded faster than the Green Bay defense. Not running up to a camera is unheard of for these guys. Now, crickets.
Empty lives are a vacuum that must be filled.
Dave, let me step back from our back-and-forth and try to add something constructive, because I think there’s a legal framework here that hasn’t really made it into the conversation.
Last May, the Supreme Court issued a unanimous decision in Barnes v. Felix that addressed how courts should evaluate police shootings under the Fourth Amendment. The Court rejected the Fifth Circuit’s narrow “moment-of-threat” rule—which focused only on the instant before the trigger was pulled—and reaffirmed that courts must consider the totality of the circumstances known to the officer leading up to the use of force.
That isn’t some brand-new invention. It’s grounded in longstanding precedent from Graham v. Connor and Tennessee v. Garner, and most circuits were already doing it. But the Court’s unanimous rejection of the narrower approach is a useful reminder of how these shootings are supposed to be evaluated legally—not just rhetorically or politically.
So, with that in mind, here’s how I see the Good shooting.
The question isn’t whether Good made bad choices. I think we both agree she may not have made the wisest ones. The question is whether a reasonable officer, knowing what this agent knew at the moment he fired, would believe deadly force was necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm.
Looking at the totality of circumstances from what’s publicly available:
• The vehicle’s movement: The video shows Good’s Honda virtually stationary—stopped or barely moving—when the agent opened fire through the windshield. This isn’t Darrell Brooks doing 30+ mph through a Christmas parade. It’s a stopped (or near-stopped) car.
• The agent’s position: The shooter was standing to the side of the vehicle, out of its direct path, when he fired the first shot. He wasn’t in front of the car, he wasn’t pinned, he wasn’t being dragged. He had already moved himself out of the vehicle’s trajectory.
• Good’s words: Seconds before being shot, Good calmly said to the shooter, “everything is fine” and “I’m not mad at you.” That’s on the agent’s own cellphone video. Those aren’t the words of someone “weaponizing her vehicle in an attempt to kill,” as DHS describes it. They’re the words of someone trying, however clumsily, to de‑escalate. The opposite of a clear, articulated threat.
• The agent’s reaction afterward: After the shooting, someone on the video—presumably the agent—called her a “fucking bitch.” That doesn’t sound like the immediate reaction of someone who just survived what he believed was an unavoidable, life‑or‑death encounter. It sounds like anger and contempt. That doesn’t prove the force was unlawful, but it does raise fair questions about what was driving the decision to shoot.
• The injury claim: The feds initially said the agent was hospitalized for “internal bleeding.” You suggested it was more likely bruising. If the injury was exaggerated in the public narrative—as it appears it may have been—that undercuts the claim that he faced a genuinely grave physical threat.
Under Barnes, all of that matters. You can’t carve out a split second and ignore everything leading up to it. You can’t ignore what Good said. You can’t ignore where the agent was standing. You can’t ignore his reaction afterward.
Superintendent Snelling’s warning about boxing in law enforcement is fair enough as a general rule. But it still leaves the specific question on the table: was this shooting, under these particular circumstances, a reasonable use of deadly force? From the video evidence and Good’s own words, I don’t think it was, and I’m not convinced a jury would, either.
You compared Good to Ashli Babbitt and said the Capitol Police lieutenant who shot Babbitt was “fully justified.” I agree with you on that one. But again, look at the totality of circumstances there: Babbitt was climbing through a broken window, part of a mob that had already overwhelmed police, moving toward members of Congress who were in the process of being evacuated. The officer was directly in her path, defending a barricaded doorway. That’s a textbook imminent threat.
Good, by contrast, was sitting in a stationary Honda saying, “I’m not mad at you.”
If Babbitt’s shooting was justified under the totality‑of‑circumstances framework—and I think it was—then Good’s shooting looks very different under that same standard. The threat levels aren’t comparable. The officer’s positioning isn’t comparable. The words spoken in those final seconds aren’t comparable.
Look, I know we’re friends, and we’re going to part ways on some of this. That’s fine. But I do think the legal framework matters here, especially when we’re talking about life‑and‑death state power. The Supreme Court just reminded everyone—unanimously—how these cases are supposed to be evaluated. When you apply that framework honestly to the facts we have, it’s hard for me to see how this qualifies as a justified use of deadly force.
Good may have been foolish. But under Barnes v. Felix, foolishness isn’t a capital offense. The question is whether deadly force was reasonable under the totality of the circumstances. Based on what we know right now, I think the law cuts in a different direction than the information you’ve shared suggests.
Disagreeing with you on this doesn’t change the fact that I value our friendship and the conversations we have. I just see this one differently than the sources you’ve provided.
So much for the 250 word limit.
Renee Good’s wife is on tape seated moments after exhorting Renee to “Drive baby, just drive.” Her next statement was “This is all my fault.’
so what? she just saw her spouse shot to death and you want to examine her words as the woman was laying in the street?
“Virtually stationary” = Not stationary
“Out of it’s direct path” = In it’s path
Your big miss is not including all of Rebecca Good’s actions, including what turned out to be the fatal instruction to “Drive, baby, drive!”. It’s all relevant.
Thanks, this is all good. Using the SCOTUS standard, none of these changes my opinion, and I don’t think it will sway a jury’s decision, given the totality of the circumstances known to the officer leading up to the use of force. If you disagree, that’s cool.
As I live and breath…..Now this blog is quoting a Chicago cop. The blue state, run by woke, commie, left-wing scum whose governor should be jailed said one thing that they agree with. Of course it was twisted a little to fit the right-wing narrative, but that’s ok.
Go talk to some Chicago cops. The ones I’ve conversed with can’t stand their city government. Better yet, spend an hour reading Second City Cop to get a feel for what many of them think but are afraid to say in public.